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    •  
      CommentAuthorSubJunk 
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2010
      0 points
    b0n3z:And with acids assembling themselves in experiments, isnt it a controlled environment? Is it truly accurate without having the EXACT conditions of the original primordial soup?
    At the moment it's not possible to know the exact conditions of the original primordial soup, and I doubt it would ever be possible to know that, but we can make what we think are accurate predictions and it doesn't seem too complicated. The experiments were done decades ago by many people including Sidney Fox and Alex Oparin and have been redone many times. They find that liposomes and microspheres spontaneously form in the conditions.

    Runamok: hard to tell if you've hit the crazy dancing guy to be fair
    •  
      CommentAuthorb0n3z 
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2010
      0 points
    could you possibly give me some links? i'd love to read through some info.

    Marchic: If a thread doesn't get hijacked it's just not Red Skies... BOOBIES FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorRocket 
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2010
      0 points
    Well that debate was an interesting read indeed. I'm in agreement with SubJunk for the most part.
    At one point you suggested that for a god to have created us, then another conscious must have created god, and so on and so forth. What if (and I don't believe a word of this myself, no particular reason, I just don't believe it. That said, it still seems an interesting idea) the whole of existence was simply an immense time loop? What if (in the future) we evolve or develop a technology that turns us into a consciousness that is capable of creating the beginning, and knows no restrictions on where in time it may be. True, that insinuates that something must always have been here, and will always be, because of the time loop, but just go with it. I want to see what you guys can come up with.

    SubJunk - Rocket teh ninja
    •  
      CommentAuthorSubJunk 
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2010
      0 points
    b0n3z:could you possibly give me some links? i'd love to read through some info.
    This is a pretty cool page, it has plenty of links that branch off into more specific pages. And as with any use of Wikipedia, if there's information you are going to pay particular attention to it's worth checking the sources (usually linked by a number at the end of the sentence or paragraph). These days Wikipedia is tightly guarded on big articles like evolution (you can't edit them without being a trusted member and even then the edits are moderated closely) but the sources can be great ways to get more specifics.

    The origin of life is something we can't know about, at least not at the moment and I suspect not ever, just because it was so long ago and those early signs of life left no traces.
    We've seen very simple and early fossils, but of course when life is even more simple it doesn't have anything to leave behind, it's just a cell or less.
    We can do experiments to show that our theory is viable but we can't say it's definitely what happened, just probably.

    However that's just abiogenesis. Once life is started we have truckloads of evidence. One of the most amazing things is to go to a museum of natural history, most countries have them, and ask to be shown the sorting room.
    That's where they keep all the excess fossils they have that aren't on display. In the largest museums they have massive libraries full of fossils showing very fine evolutionary changes over time.
    I laugh whenever I see a new article released titled something like "new transitional fossil discovered", well we've had more transitional fossils than we are able to sort for decades.
    For every one that is categorised there are 100 more sitting on tables and drawers waiting to be named and dated and filed. It's hard to even find people motivated to do it anymore.
    Sometimes I wonder if those popular-science magazines are doing more harm than good. They publish these excessive articles full of supposed controversy in order to sell more copies, but the effect it has on the public is that there is still some controversy. What we should be publishing is the truth, that for the last 100+ years evolution has been accepted by 99.9% of people who study it (and the 0.1% are blocked by their religious traditions) and that there is more evidence than we can deal with.

    Anyway Rocket I think that's possible. In the last couple of months there has been a lot of interest in the media about a physics theory seeking to unify special relativity with quantum mechanics which predicts that it's possible for universes with their own timelines to be formed within some black holes, and therefore that our universe might be inside a black hole in another universe, and our universe may have spontaneously given birth to million of universes, some of which may have experienced more time than we have despite having not existed before us (yeah time-dilation and black holes are a crazy combo)
    One cool thing is it could explain the arrow of time (why cause comes before effect) and that it is theoretically testable; if we're inside a black hole in another universe we should be able to verify that.

    Runamok: hard to tell if you've hit the crazy dancing guy to be fair
    •  
      CommentAuthorRocket 
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2010
      0 points
    Woo hoo, now that is some crazy awesomeness to make your brain hurt :bigsmile:

    SubJunk - Rocket teh ninja
    •  
      CommentAuthorb0n3z 
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2010
      0 points
    question, within a paradox, wrapped in an enigma...

    Marchic: If a thread doesn't get hijacked it's just not Red Skies... BOOBIES FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSubJunk 
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2010
      0 points
    Here's an even more obvious example. It's a lizard that is evolving the ability to have live birth instead of laying eggs. That's a pretty dramatic change. We've observed that it has happened in the past many times but this is happening right now.
    linky

    Runamok: hard to tell if you've hit the crazy dancing guy to be fair